Interview Fabienne Berthaud (‘Pieds nus’)

Amsterdam, Embassy Hotel, Tuesday 22 March 2011

In ‘Pieds nus’, a new film from French filmmaker Fabienne Berthaud, the versatile Ludivine Sagnier plays the role of Lily, a simple girl who will have to build a new life together with her older sister Clara (a surprisingly well-playing Diane Kruger). when their mother dies suddenly. Lily lives in her own world but loves her sister very much, doesn’t mince words and turns out to have unexpected wisdom, which makes for special moments. On March 21, 2011, there was already a festive pre-premiere of ‘Pieds nus’ in the film theater Cinecenter in Amsterdam, in the presence of the director, and the next day we had the honor to talk to this good-humoured filmmaker, writer, and camerawoman about her beautiful movie.

New meaning in life

Although the key character Lily is based on a real woman that Berthaud had met in Paris (during the shooting of her previous film, Frankie), the film itself is almost entirely fictional, says Berthaud. “With the exception of one autobiographical element: the death of my mother. She did not die in a car accident, as in the film, but in an equally immediate manner, with the same cause of death.” Although the mother is in a sense always present in the background, and her death is the reason for the daughters’ coming together, she hardly appears in the film. She can only be seen briefly in one scene. “She’s also not the subject of the film,” explains Berthaud. “It’s about the two sisters and the way they shape their lives together and discover a (new) meaning in life.”

sister actresses

The bond between the two main characters, sisters Lily and Clara, is portrayed in such a convincing way by Ludivine Sagnier and Diane Kruger that you would think they are really sisters. This must have been preceded by a long preparation to let the actresses get used to each other. But this turned out not to have been necessary. “No, they came together on set, and there was actually a band right away,” says Berthaud. “They may have seen each other two or three times before the shooting started; no more. We didn’t even rehearse together once. During the casting I let them come together, and then I quickly decided: these are the two sisters. That was certain. They got along very well and are now good friends. So it’s no coincidence. Ultimately it comes down to choosing the right people.”

Bad actor = bad casting

Good casting is of great importance in a film according to Berthaud, and according to her bad acting cannot be blamed on the actor himself. She believes it is the responsibility of the director that an actor can handle a certain role. “If an actor isn’t good at a movie, it’s because of the director. Then he chose his actors badly. Every little role has to be cast very well. Even an actor who only has two lines of text has to appear believable.” Of course she likes it too
that some actors are better than others at their craft, but ultimately it’s the director’s job to put the right people in the right place. Also, every actor needs his own approach. Berthaud: “Not everyone is the same. Some are right on the first take. Others need ten takes. And some actors have to talk a lot before they can perform their roles well. As a director, I adapt to that.”

Ludivine and Lily

Ludivine Sagnier’s spontaneous, engaging play is one of the reasons that the viewer is always fascinated by the film. Her acting is a revelation, and very different from previous roles. This is partly due to the freedom she has been given by the director to experiment and be herself. Berthaud: “I wanted her to be as free as possible. That she was confident in her game. She had to embody the character. She had to be the character and not play it. I therefore wanted to remove everything that was artificial. I also think it’s a director’s greatest job to make the actors feel so comfortable that they dare to play anything. Ludivine dared this too. She wasn’t afraid to look ridiculous, to try new things. Not everything works, but that’s okay. You will find that out yourself.”

For the character of Lily, who is mentally simpler than her surroundings, the director and actress wanted to use as few mannerisms as possible. “We talked a lot about the character and we didn’t want to overemphasize the craziness or the childishness,” explains Berthaud. “She had to act as normal as possible.” Berthaud seems to be less interested in portraying a particular disease and more in showing how some people are labeled as “different”. “It’s actually the situations themselves, or around her, that make her not ‘normal’. It may be simple, but that is really only because of the other person’s gaze. It’s also the dialogues that make her different. She tells people the truth, she is not afraid to be politically incorrect. She doesn’t care about that.” It is also noticeable in the film that Lily meets few expectations or prejudices about her “condition”. It turns out she isn’t stupid at all. At times she is very observant and she knows how to perfectly understand the people around her – not least her sister. “Yes, she is very lucid and intelligent,” Berthaud says. “Perhaps too intelligent.”

book vs movie

The film ‘Pieds nus’ does not stand alone. It is an adaptation of a novel by Fabienne Berthaud himself. To what extent are these two versions connected? For example, did Berthaud write the book with the movie already in mind? “No, I wasn’t planning on making it into a movie later on,” Berthaud says. “But when I had made the film ‘Frankie’ and wanted to start a new film, I really wanted to continue the theme from that film, and my book was ideal source material for that. Both stories are about being different, about fragile people with no place within the established frameworks of society. About life in the margins, and the borderline syndrome. That theme interests me. That is why I decided to make my own book into a film.”

Yet it is not a direct adaptation of the book. Berthaud has walked new paths with her film and introduced new characters. Also, the movie has a more positive atmosphere than the book. “The movie is not true to the book. I betrayed the spirit of the novel,” jokes Berthaud. “I didn’t want to reproduce the same story,” she explains. “I did use the same story and characters, but not always at the same time. In the novel, it is also only Clara who talks or comments. That is different, because then it is only about her perception, her point of view. In the film we see the points of view of both sisters.”

Movie = Hope

One of the reasons Berthaud didn’t want to edit the book one-on-one is that she didn’t want the movie to be as dark as the book. She believes that film should have something positive in it. “Literature can be very dark, and that can go very far in the imagination too,” says Berthaud. “But I don’t think you can show the same in film. I couldn’t bear the seriousness and weight of the book in a movie.”

The filmmaker does not think that it is not possible to make good dark, weighty films. “Of course, beautiful dark films have been made. I also like that one. But I didn’t feel like making anything negative myself. I wanted the viewer to leave the film relieved, rather than in a slump. I didn’t feel like that.” She clearly had a different goal with the film than with the book. “Yes, I wanted to tell a story about the taste and finding freedom, and the importance of this.”

Movie = Emotion

Berthaud has a clear opinion about what a film should be or express for her. When asked what she thinks is the most important aspect of a film, she answers: “Emotion. It doesn’t matter if a movie isn’t quite right, as long as you as a viewer don’t stay closed off from the story and the characters. That’s the most important thing for me. I prefer that to a very nice film with beautiful images where I don’t feel anything.”

The way in which she personally, as a filmmaker, gets close to the characters is the use of close-ups. This can also be clearly seen in ‘Pieds nus’, in which the smallest external changes of the actors and actresses are made visible. Berthaud: “I feel the need to feel the actors and to see them up close. That way I can empathize with their emotions and transfer them to film. It often happens without me noticing. Whenever I start filming from afar, I still want to zoom in on the characters. I want to penetrate them, as it were.” Berthaud succeeded in that penetration in ‘Pieds nus’. It is a film to be enjoyed in all its emotional details. Then you have to wait for the next subject on which Berthaud will focus her attentive gaze. It will be beautiful without a doubt.