Interview Lloyd Kaufman (Troma Film Festival)

Amsterdam, EYE Film Institute, Sunday 21 March 2010

On 20 and 21 March 2010, a unique festival took place in the (former) Filmmuseum and Cinema OT301, called The Amsterdam Tromaton. This time no renowned, large-scale festival like the IFFR or the IDFA. Nor are intellectual film greats such as Bergman or Antonioni honored. No, the Tromathon is all about the insane pulp films from the film label Troma founded by Lloyd Kaufman. Kaufman was immortalized by the 1984 cult film ‘The Toxic Avenger’, about a nerd who turns into a hideous superhero after falling into a chemical waste vat, and since then Troma and figurehead “Toxie” have built up a huge fan base. Troma has done this purely on its own, as an independent film label without distribution or major marketing campaigns. That commands respect and makes Kaufman a hero within the film industry. That is why we did not hesitate for a moment when the opportunity was offered to speak to this pioneer.

Sex with Toxie

Lloyd Kaufman is close to retirement, but you wouldn’t tell if you were talking to him, seeing him in his movies, or looking at his resume. This man just never sits still. He is also pleasantly disturbed and difficult to gauge in a conversation. It is not always clear how seriously or jokingly to take his comments. Fortunately, the beginning of the conversation leaves no doubt about this: when asked whether he has ever put on the Toxie mask – which he brought for the occasion – himself, he replies: “Of course. I put it on during sex. With men. And goats.” Does he have much success with this? Kaufman: “The goats love it.”

He could go on like this for hours without a doubt, but luckily he also talks easily about general and more serious topics. He is very enthusiastic about the festival itself. “It is a fantastic honour. There’s a great atmosphere here, and it’s sold out too! And that without distribution. That’s better than getting an Oscar… No, it’s not. Yes, I do. No not true. Yes. Oh… it’s all bullshit.” Quickly continue the conversation, before the voices in his head throw a spanner in the works. The Netherlands is – or was – known as a liberal country, so it is understandable that people are not easily shocked by sex or gore in films. But the Troma films are not only popular in our little country, says Kaufman: “In France they love Troma. I’m the Jerry Lewis of underground cinema in France. And in Japan they have Troma nights and clubs. While we have no distribution. No income. We don’t make any money at all.”

Devil worshiping media

While Kaufman may at first appear to be a fun-loving, no-nonsense filmmaker who likes to go crazy and shock people, the conversation always returns to his underdog position as a filmmaker and the terror of the movie conglomerates. , which independent filmmakers don’t give a chance. When asked what he could (could) do with a bigger budget, Kaufman answers: “With a bigger budget I could use more prostitutes, and dogs and goats. Lots of goats. I like goats…. But no, the budget is not the problem. The problem is that the film industry, the media, and to a large extent the art world is run by a small group of devil-worshipping, international media conglomerates. As good as our movies may be, we can’t get them to the public because we can’t break through the hymen of cartels or monopoly. This puts us on a blacklist from an economic point of view. That is the problem. Even if I made ‘Avatar’ or ‘Gone With the Wind’, the films wouldn’t make any money because I’m on an economic blacklist.”

Kaufman clearly feels very strongly about it, but even if he seems to take it very personally, it is not an injustice that is specifically aimed at Troma or his person, the filmmaker clarifies: “Independent artistic expressions just don’t get a chance. If you’re not affiliated with the big conglomerates, you don’t exist. You get no work and you are made impossible to distribute your art. The media ignores you, you don’t get articles in the newspapers. You get no attention and no distribution. Troma is the proof. We don’t have a distribution but we do have a large fan base. Outside of the United States, governments often help the local arts, allowing people like Claude Chabrol or Eric Rohmer to have long careers,” the director continues. “The United States doesn’t do that. They only help corporations, unions, and bureaucrats.” Kaufman doesn’t think this will ever change. Not even under Obama. “It only gets worse. It will never change. If you’re an artist, just make your art. As long as you can eat and have shelter, that should suffice.”

Troma’s influence

Although he gives that impression for a moment, he is not bitter: “I am very pleased,” says Kaufman. “I am honored a lot. I have loyal fans, without media attention. So no bullshit prices, but genuine interest. My work has influenced, I say, filmmakers such as Quentin Tarantino, Gaspar Noé, Peter Jackson, Takashi Miike, Alex de Iglesia. I’ve owned a company for 35 years, which some say is legendary, we have about 800 films, and the Toxic Avenger is more popular than many a movie star from the 1980s. I have been with my wife for 35 years and I have a small group of close friends. So I’ve been very lucky. I have nothing to regret.” But he quickly adds: “I only regret the times when I compromised my art. Because it never got any better.”

Compromises and remakes

Even the independent rebel Kaufman has sometimes had to make compromises. “I did this with the movies ‘The Toxic Avenger II’ and ‘III’ and ‘Sergeant Kabukiman NYPD’. I tried to make them more mainstream, which was a mistake. It was due to video deals where the movies had to be a little more lenient because of the censorship. I regret not being able to make what I wanted to make. But they are still good movies and people enjoy them. So it’s not that bad again.” Despite this last remark, it is quite possible that he would like to make up for his mistakes by means of remakes, but he doesn’t feel like this himself. “Others do,” says Kaufman. “Brett Ratner just did a remake of ‘Mother’s Day’, and we’ve struck a deal – which hasn’t been announced yet, as we don’t have public relations – for a remake of ‘The Toxic Avenger’. There is also a musical version of ‘The Toxic Avenger’ that has been playing in New York for a year.”

musicals

An interesting fact about Kaufman is that he has always been a big fan of musicals. He would also like to make a musical himself, but he does not have the money for it: “It is very complicated and expensive. But have you seen ‘Poultrygeist: Night of the Chicken Dead’? You do not know what you are missing. Very moving… beautiful. That movie has song and dance in it, about six songs. But it’s not a musical. It’s a bit… a bit… well, it’s indescribable, but there are songs in the film,” said Kaufman, who makes a futile attempt to characterize his own film.

Gore: Troma’s Convenient Truth

Troma has become known for, among other things, the many gore and flying limbs, which was of course mixed with humor and eroticism. But these horror-like elements, which made their appearance in ‘The Toxic Avenger’, have been added in a rather arbitrary way: because of the claim that the horror film is dead. Kaufman explains: “I think it was a piece in Variety that said horror was no longer commercial. We had to switch anyway because the big studios started making the type of films we were working on: spicy comedies. Only they used good actors and good scripts, which of course is not fair,” the filmmaker jokes. “So then we had to do something else. Then we saw that article and decided to do the opposite of what the experts said.”

In short, if it had been stated that musicals were no longer commercial, he could have focused on that genre: “That’s right,” Kaufman agrees. “The only problem is that musicals are expensive. But almost every film of mine has music video elements or bits of song and dance. I love that. As a gay married man, I have of course been to many Barbra Streisand musicals.”

Kaufman is inspired not only by musicals, but also by the work of comedy greats Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton: “When you watch ‘The Toxic Avenger’ you see a lot of Chaplin’s ‘City Lights’. There are also blind characters in many of my films. Chaplin’s films are fantastic and had everything in them: social statements, comedy, love. They are masterpieces. Just like the paintings by Van Gogh or Rembrandt,” says the filmmaker. Does he also try to put these elements in his films himself? “There are no rules,” says Kaufman. “I do what I think is important at the time: in ‘Poultrygeist’ I started with the social statement that the fast food industry is evil. And the hypocrisy of the yuppie generation. In addition, I always wanted to do something with music and funny lyrics.”

Troma without a box

Despite the horror elements in many of the films, Troma’s work cannot be categorized. Kaufman: “It’s not horror, because the movies aren’t scary. It’s a bit of everything: gore, sex, comedy, action, slapstick, mystery, satire. That’s probably why we have such a large following, because Troma is unique. It’s kind of a brand name. But in a video store you do have the problem under which category you should place the films. A movie like ‘Tromeo & Juliet’ isn’t scary enough for horror and when it’s covered in comedy, the unsuspecting housewife starts complaining because she suddenly sees a talking penis. You don’t expect anything like that.”

Whether it’s a talking penis or a body going through the meat grinder: Kaufman loves to shock. That was already the case with his first experimental video, shot in Africa, of a screaming pig being slaughtered. There was no deeper fascination with the sight of a pig bleeding to death: “I just wanted to shock, irritate, or make people think about what they saw. But that video was a learning process that I now regret. I no longer eat meat and fish, and I feel sorry for the animals. I only eat human flesh,” says the filmmaker who makes a joke of almost everything.

So bad it’s good? shocking!

The only time Kaufman gets dead serious and his hair stands on end is when he’s confronted with the statement, “It’s so bad, it’s good”, which is sometimes used to refer to bad films that are comical or valuable precisely because of their lousy production values. turn into. “No, nobody says that!” Kaufman responds immediately. “If you say that, you’re a complete idiot. Nobody says that about a Troma movie. Maybe they say that about the man who made Plan 9 From Outer Space, but not about Troma movies. They may say the movie is bad, but not that it is “so bad it’s good”. Then they are idiots. Sure, I’ve heard people hate my movies, but I don’t like that idea of ​​”so bad, it’s good.” I am against that.” Clear. And logically too. Kaufman’s films may be laughable: he takes the making of his films very seriously and puts a lot of love into them. Then “so bad it’s good” is not really a compliment. Spectators walking away in shock from his films… that’s another story. Then Kaufman has achieved at least one of his goals.